How to Start A Fight: The Nashville Recall - An Interview with Jamie Hollin

2010 was the year not only of the grassroots citizen-led recall of Chattanooga Mayor Ron Littlefield, but also of the recall election of Nashville Metro Council District 5 Representative Pam Murray. The grassroots group "We the People of District 5" went door to door gathering over 1,200 signatures to recall Murray, 300 more signatures than necessary. One of the leaders in the effort was Jamie Hollin, a Nashville lawyer with a heavy southern accent and left-wing populist politics. "We the People of District 5" were prompted to recall Murray largely in reaction to her being unresponsive to the people in her district.

WKRN presented a story on Hollin's petition drive to recall Murray:


Murray filed a defamation lawsuit against her own constituents, listing "libelous" activities like: "drafting false and defamatory statements during the campaign, including claims that she lived in Detroit, supported out-of-town landlords and misused tax dollars".

A Williamson County Circuit Court Judge dismissed the case.

Interesting parallels exist between the Chattanooga & Nashville recalls:  "Hyper-local" blogging was blamed by both politicians for disseminating "incorrect" information (see "Districtfive Blog"). In both cases the politicians being recalled resorted to personal attacks on their own constituents (Hollin was accused of using drugs, Chattanooga recallers were described by the Mayor as a "narrow minded fringe group fueled by misinformation and blinded by anger" with the ultimate goal of "intimidation").

Unlike the Chattanooga recall, after the Davidson County Election Commission certified the petitions there was an actual recall election - an election that pitted Hollin against Murray. Hollin would go on to win the recall election by just two votes, or, as he is apparently fond of saying, by "twice as many votes as is necessary".

After serving a brief stint of just two years, Hollin decided against seeking re-election to the District 5 Metro Council seat or any higher office. His quoted reasons, published in a Tennessean article from the time, are reflective of his populist politics:
“The reason I got involved to the level I did was because of things going on, taking power away from the people. The reason I wanted to get involved was to demonstrate for citizens the power in government indeed lies with the people.” 
Hollin supported Scott Davis who went on to  beat Murray in 2011 when she ran again to try and win back the District seat.


During his tenure in office, Hollin also was heavily involved in a grassroots initiative led by a group calling themselves "Save My Fairgrounds". The petition-drive garnered over 15,000 signatures and triggered a referendum allowing voters to amend the Metro Charter. The Metro Charter amendment proposed to "make it more difficult for city government to change the status quo at the 117-acre Tennessee State Fairgrounds" and followed "a year in which the mayor’s plans to redevelop the property for an unidentified corporate campus were roundly criticized and eventually stymied" according to one article in the Nashville City Paper.


The "controversial" Hollin seems to never back down from a fight and is definitely no stranger to confrontation. In 2011 Hollin crafted a resolution honoring high school students who protested the "Don't Say Gay" hate bill being promoted by the right-wing extremists in the Tennessee General Assembly. Hollin's resolution  failed to go to a vote due to lack of support. Hollin proceeded to "erupt" into a "profanity-laced rant" against Jim Gotto (who serves as BOTH a Metro Council Representative AND state representative) for voting against the measure on biblical grounds - the episode was caught on film by the Tennessean and makes for really enjoyable viewing.


Hollin was kind enough to take time out from his busy schedule and reply to an email I sent him asking a series of questions. I have posted his reply here in full without any edits:


So you led the first historical recall of a sitting Metro Council person. What are the Metro rules with regard to recalls?
First, it should be noted that these rules apply to counties having a metropolitan form of government only, which includes the City of Nashville. I, along with my neighbors and other committed citizens of Nashville successfully recalled a district council member. In order to recall a district council member, under our Charter and other state laws, one must collect 15% of the registered voters signatures on a petition within 30 days. This type of shot clock makes it nearly impossible from the outset. Several had been attempted in the past without success. They cannot be undertaken within 180 days of an elected official being seated or within 180 days until the expiration of the term.

From a technical aspect, the petition language must include the reason why the recall election is being sought. It must then be filed with the Metro Clerk—this office is the keeper of public records regarding elected officials in Nashville government. The Metro Clerk, pursuant to the Charter, is compelled to notify the affected elected official, which is ordinarily done by mail.

Then the petition must then be filed in the office of the Davidson County Election Commission. It should come as no surprise that within minutes of the filing the press was notified by Election Commission staff even though the Administrator of Elections in that office was gone for the day.

Then, within 30 days, the petition signatures shall be filed. Once staff verifies the signatures, the Election Commission meets to set the date of the election. Under the Charter, the election is then set no sooner than 45 days and no later than 60 days. The incumbent is automatically qualified to be on the ballot with no requirement to qualify for election. If the incumbent doesn’t desire to be on the ballot, he or she must notify the election commission in writing. Any and all possible challengers must then qualify for election under state law as any other candidate would in the ordinary course.

I was really interested in the Nashville recall, which I could find no evidence of having been reported on by the Chattanooga Times Free Press, and sent Mr. Hollin an email with a series of questions  which he was kind of enough to answer. I have printed the exchange here in full, with no edits:

How much public support did the recall have?
I think there was broad support for the effort from a city-wide perspective, however, in our case, those opinions were largely irrelevant. Irrelevant in the sense that their respective signatures on the petition were disqualified. We did enjoy financial support from some folks outside the district that was invaluable.

Was City Hall or a group of Metro Council folks actively fighting the recall effort?
The political establishment was not involved in the effort for obvious political reasons. Some council members attended various community meetings to see first hand for themselves how our community was being treated. Some came to a few meetings, some came to more.

What obstacles did you encounter? 
Too many obstacles to name. It is inherently difficult to accomplish these types of efforts because the people responsible for writing the language don’t want it to happen to them.

Did you notice a lot of public uneasiness with respect to the recall or even outright pubic challenges to the right of citizens to use recall?
I am sure there was some uneasiness as noted by the harassment we received from the incumbent and family while we were out knocking on doors. We were followed, threatened, and intimidated.

There was a legal challenge brought by the incumbent in the Chancery Court of Davidson County. The incumbent filed suit against the Election Commission alleging the signatures were bad, fraud, etc. This effort failed.

The incumbent took it a step further by resorting to a defamation suit against me and 12 other citizens involved. This case recently concluded and covered 16 months. This suit, however, had the intended effect of chilling political participation by citizens. Each party to the suit was sued for $1 Million in damages. It is currently on appeal for me and 3 other parties to the suit. All defendants were dismissed from the suit or were victorious in our motions for summary judgment, which was granted by the trial court. But, this didn’t come without extraordinary expense, time and labor. And, there’s more to come in the appeal to the Middle Section of the Court of Appeals.

You also led the first historical initiative. What is the process for initiative in Metro Nashville?
The Fairgrounds referendum was not the first. The first was to put tax increases to the voters. That effort was led by Ben Cunningham. The next was English-only led by Eric Crafton, which was unsuccessful.

Citizen-led charter amendments can only be conducted once every 2 years. In order to get them on the ballot, 15% of the registered voters in the county must sign a petition to get the same on the ballot. However, the 15% is not the total of registered voters in the county. The number is 15% of the registered voters who voted in the last Metro election. The number was challenged at the election commission of what the actual number needed was, which triggered the amount necessary to get it on the ballot. The debate centered on what was the preceding Metro election. The Tennessee Supreme Court had already clearly defined what that was. The opposition group challenged the ruling in their argument to the election commission, but was unsuccessful.

Was the initiative easier after the recall? 
No.

What did you notice about the general public response to your initiative? 
The referendum received 71% approval at the ballot box, so this is evidence of general public response. 3,000 people showed up to the courthouse when the bill to demolish the speedway was on public hearing at the Metro Council. According to political observers, this was the largest crowd ever to appear for a council meeting.

What about the response from the people in power?
The people in power were adamantly opposed. Demolition of the speedway and the destruction of the Fairgrounds was their goal. They propped up the opposition group with funding. Used it as a catalyst to defeat a well-liked council member. Engaged in every backhanded political trick imaginable, all without success.

What was challenging logistically to getting the signatures on the ground?
Raising the money to pay for postage to mail the petitions. The sheer size of our county eliminates any real possibility for getting the signatures collected via a door-to-door campaign. However, we did that every chance we got in the most densely populated areas of the county.

What are general challenges to using initiative, referendum and recall?
Political efforts cost money. This is by far the biggest challenge. Always will be. The next biggest challenge is having committed volunteers. In the efforts I’ve been involved in, the money was always tight or non-existent, but the volunteers were always there.

What, if any, do you think are the logistical differences between running a ground game for an initiative as opposed to a recall?
The issue in either, just like a campaign for office, is getting people to the polls. Sadly, political participation is rare. In Nashville, we generally have 15% turnout for these types of election.

What part of the year did you perform the recall and initiative?
Recall: signatures collected mid-August through mid-September. Election in mid-November.
Referendum: signatures collected June through July. Election in early August.

Both occasions, it was HOT.


Recall, referendum & initiative are products of the Progressive Era – given to us by populist activists seeking to create more channels for broad participatory power. What do you think about forms of direct democracy, like recall & initiative, and the current push for direct democracy by left-leaning populist movements like Occupy?
I am a populist at heart. If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change the way you think about it.

I decline the invitation to weigh-in on the Occupy movement. They have the right message, however. Just needs work.

More people have to start making the connection. Until then, I don’t see much change in our government’s outcome. If I can do nothing else, I’d encourage folks to get involved locally. Once the locals get the picture, then movement can be made at the state and federal levels.

Every chance I get; I encourage people to read Republic, Lost by Lawrence Lessig.

Some other books I feel are important are:
Throw them all out, by Peter Schweizer
Capitol Punishment, by Jack Abramoff
Confidence Men, by Ron Suskind
The Big Short, by Michael Lewis
Boomerang, by Michael Lewis
That used to be us, by Thomas Friedman and Michael Mandelbaum
The Black Banners, by Ali Soufan
Winner take all politics, by Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson

As long as someone like Buddy Roemer cannot get on the ballot, I don’t see much hope for us on the state or national level. Yet, local government is completely within our reach.

I am currently reading Quiet by Susan Collins. We must find ways to get introverts more engaged with the rest of us. Rosa Parks was an introvert and she changed history. We need more like her in the fight for a more responsible and constituent driven local democracy. The good news is, it only takes one to start the avalanche.


[Follow Jamie Hollin on Twitter: @jrhollin ]